Autor Thema: Calling all hungarians: What was actually Orbán talking about?  (Gelesen 3045 mal)

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Offline Settembrini

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Now, some weeks ago, there was some trash-talk about Germany, hungary and the EU. Ah yes, and the ominous "cavalry".

I would be very interested to find out what Orbán ORIGINALLY said and meant. He was reported to have said sth like "Germans sent their tanks already in the 40ies and it did not work".

So, the German stupidification media presented it as if Orbán meant German tanks as occupants. But when talking about tanks, fourties, sending the cavalry and hungary one would rather think Debrecen and the Tiger IIs etc. that were sent to thwart Soviet advances.
Could Orbán have alluded to that? It would be quite a snappy comment that way.

For me this is important to understand how far into lala land German media have delved...or if this time, they were right.
7. Dan im prussien jeux-jitsu
Schwarzer Gurt im Pyro-Fu
Eternal Champion des ghoulu-jitsu
Flammenwerfer der holistischen Rollo-Lehre des fröhlichen Orcs
Grüngurt im Drama-Fu (Drachen-Stil)

Offline Melan

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Re: Calling all hungarians: What was actually Orbán talking about?
« Antwort #1 am: 10. Juni 2013, 09:58:38 »
Oh dear.

Here are the two quotes:
Merkel (on the WDR forum): "Wir werden alles tun, um Ungarn auf den richtigen Weg zu bringen, aber nicht gleich die Kavallerie schicken."; "We will do everything to bring Hungary on the correct path, but that doesn't quite mean sending the cavalry."
Orbán (responding to a question in a regular radio interview): „A németek küldtek már lovasságot Magyarországra, tankok formájában jöttek, ne küldjenek, az a kérésünk. Nem volt jó ötlet, nem vált be”; "The Germans have already sent cavalry to Hungary, and they came in the form of tanks, which we request they should not do [again]. It was not a good idea and it did not work out."

It is pretty clear that both remarks were examples of dry humour, which both Merkel and Orbán like to use. The idea that Orbán compared Merkel (or the whole of Germany, as the story evolved) to the Nazis, or that he was "visibly annoyed" at the remark (that's very unlike him; he has almost reptilian self-control), came from one specific source, Keno Verseck's article in Der Spiegel. It spread from there because it could be used to represent a particular image people want to believe in, which is the essence of truthiness.

There is fairly little useful to discuss about the media image called "Hungary", because it is more or less like "Ruritania", "Xanadu" or "Transylvania", a popular shared fantasy. There is also a country by the same name with its own kinds of political hysteria, spite, populism, deeply ingrained corruption and weaselry, but it is not reported on internationally because these issues do not sell, or even translate very well. (One example, does it even come across that Hungary's main opposition group is not the 'liberal intelligentsia' or 'protesting students', but a large, very embedded socialist party mainly representing pensioners and waged workers?) My private opinion on this matter is usually fairly close to EPP MEP György Schöpflin's, and he is more lucid than I could be, so I will be lazy and just link this interview.

Offline Settembrini

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Re: Calling all hungarians: What was actually Orbán talking about?
« Antwort #2 am: 10. Juni 2013, 18:57:53 »
I read some interviews with Orbán and he came off at least as very clever and witty; and the whole "did not work out" angle reminded me of the battles of Debrecen.

Personally I suspected there was something amiss with the protesters, or at least peculiar. I compare that to the coverage Berlusconi got in Germany and elsewhere. That Berlusconi must often have been the more rational choice should make you think. The judicial system in Italy is not fair and balanced and Italians knew. So if a populist like Berlusconi gets elected it might also mean something is indeed more rotten than the alternative.

But as is said in the interview: Other's peoples democratic decisions are not taken seriously, and that undemrines democracy itself. The amount of times I have heardthe statement that neither Italy, Great Britain, the Netherlands, Hungary or the US of A or Israel are "proper" democracies is astounding. It is as chauvinistic as you can get, IMHO.

In any case thanks for reinforcing my suspicions that the German media are still the most rotten part of the country. Maybe the only thing i'd ad to the interviewes remarks: the dogmatic liberalism is mostly in the mind of the press, media and government employees...and the ones who want to be like them.
Majorities are shifting, and the newspapers are in SEVERE financial trouble, including Spiegel. They lose readers by the day, especially due to their self-inflicted thought policing.

ADD: Do note that three new parties have been formed in the last 6 years which good chances to enter the national parliament in fall. In oh so stable and monolithic Germany. Three. New. Parties. And all of them claim from their peculiar perspectives an end to the mainstream bullshit.
« Letzte Änderung: 10. Juni 2013, 19:08:12 von Settembrini »
7. Dan im prussien jeux-jitsu
Schwarzer Gurt im Pyro-Fu
Eternal Champion des ghoulu-jitsu
Flammenwerfer der holistischen Rollo-Lehre des fröhlichen Orcs
Grüngurt im Drama-Fu (Drachen-Stil)

Offline Infernal Teddy

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Re: Calling all hungarians: What was actually Orbán talking about?
« Antwort #3 am: 11. Juni 2013, 09:51:57 »
Well, technically the UK isn't a "real democracy", but that's a whole different discussion

Offline Settembrini

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Re: Calling all hungarians: What was actually Orbán talking about?
« Antwort #4 am: 11. Juni 2013, 20:56:37 »
Well, technically the UK isn't a "real democracy", but that's a whole different discussion

That sounds interesting! I know they are no republic for sure, but a democracy?
Methinks they were one of the inventors...
7. Dan im prussien jeux-jitsu
Schwarzer Gurt im Pyro-Fu
Eternal Champion des ghoulu-jitsu
Flammenwerfer der holistischen Rollo-Lehre des fröhlichen Orcs
Grüngurt im Drama-Fu (Drachen-Stil)

Offline Infernal Teddy

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Re: Calling all hungarians: What was actually Orbán talking about?
« Antwort #5 am: 11. Juni 2013, 21:11:53 »
Oh, they are, but the system is a slightly weird hybrid thingy. Bith like the athenian democracy, really - a permanent work in progress

Arminius

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Re: Calling all hungarians: What was actually Orbán talking about?
« Antwort #6 am: 24. Juni 2013, 22:20:14 »
Yes, well, by that standard the US is not a democracy, either. In fact over the last decade-plus, various right-wing pedants have emphasizing the "republic not a democracy" angle to justify the 2000 election, talk down the 2012 election, etc.

I think the best real argument against the UK being a democracy is that it lacks a formal constitution. But in a practical sense, even this doesn't matter.