Autor Thema: Picaresque adventures in the 17th and 18th century  (Gelesen 4017 mal)

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Offline Melan

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Picaresque adventures in the 17th and 18th century
« am: 12. Juni 2013, 10:35:53 »
We all know Grimmelhausen's Simplicissimus (along with Courage, The Notorious Thief, Whore and Vagabond and The Wonderful Bird's Nest) is one of the great works of world literature, and an adventure story beyond compare. This is evident to all with good taste. We also know Bürger's Münchhausen and Jókai's rather more obscure Told by the Death's Head are good. We might have seen Barry Lyndon, Moonfleet or the Agfacolor Münchhausen (which is almost surreally devoid of every evil its birthplace was noted for). In modern fantasy, Moorcock's War Hound is one of the masterworks, even if the sequel is pretty meh.

So what else is there for someone looking for historical or quasi-historical adventures in the age of stagecoaches, robbers, gits-in-wigs and flintlocks? (Preferbaly not including pirate stories.) What about Christian Vulpius, for instance? Good? Bad? Outdated junk? Moll Flanders - does it live up to Courage?

There must be a lot more out there.


Offline Settembrini

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Re: Picaresque adventures in the 17th and 18th century
« Antwort #1 am: 13. Juni 2013, 16:22:36 »
There is ample supply of adventurous Prussians in the 18th century, plus some rather wild stuff by the Emperors Borderers from the Military Border. Also, maybe more sinister for you: the venerated memoirs of Casanova. Less sex and much more adventure & intrigue than you might think. But then you being who you are, you had this on the screen anyway? Barry Lyndon is halfway there.
« Letzte Änderung: 13. Juni 2013, 18:04:41 von Settembrini »

Offline Melan

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Re: Picaresque adventures in the 17th and 18th century
« Antwort #2 am: 13. Juni 2013, 21:58:14 »
Strange as it may sound, I completely forgot about Casanova. I tried to get a copy of his memoirs a few years ago, but couldn't find it - might be just the right time! Thanks.

I wish my German was up to reading the original Geheimnißvoller Heldenschatz for a catalogue of magic items (it is up on Google Books), but alas, it is beyond me.

Offline BoyScout

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Re: Picaresque adventures in the 17th and 18th century
« Antwort #3 am: 13. Juni 2013, 22:37:53 »
I'm eager to know whether the d'Artagnan Romances are considered to be "quasi-historical adventures".

shame on me, i've never found time and motivation to read through all the other novels listed above.

Offline Settembrini

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Re: Picaresque adventures in the 17th and 18th century
« Antwort #4 am: 14. Juni 2013, 02:03:02 »
For me it is time to check out Vulpius, both TV and in the original, wonderful!

Offline Dirk Remmecke

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Re: Picaresque adventures in the 17th and 18th century
« Antwort #5 am: 19. Juni 2013, 10:50:32 »
In modern fantasy, Moorcock's War Hound is one of the masterworks, even if the sequel is pretty meh.

Really?

I used to read every Moorcock book that I could get when I was in my teens; I even read the Jerry Cornelius quartet.

About 10 years ago I returned to Moorcock for the only Eternal Hero that I missed in my youth, Dorian Hawkmoon, and I found it as repetitive as all his other sagas. But I finished it nonetheless as it was a light read and adventure romp, and the Tragic Millennium is an interesting setting. (At least I could see why the Hawkmoon RPG was more successful in France as Elric!/Stormbringer.)

Then I found the War Hound, apparently a work that Moorcock wrote a while after my interest in his oevre had already faded. So I gave it a try, in hopes to find a more mature Moorcock, more in line with Gloriana, or The Unfulfill'd Queen or this Byzantium thingie.

That War Hound was set in the Thirty Years War in Germany was a bonus. But, oh, this was the first Moorcock novel that I just couldn't finish. His "Germany" seemed to be even more empty and nondescript than most of his other settings (and with empty I mean literally - there are no encounters, no people that don't forward the plot).

But if you, Melan, rate this book as one of Moorcock's best, I have to give it a second chance. (Maybe I have to read it in English?)
"Aspects were best when they were just 'Cliches' in Risus."
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Offline Melan

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Re: Picaresque adventures in the 17th and 18th century
« Antwort #6 am: 21. Juni 2013, 09:21:56 »
I'm eager to know whether the d'Artagnan Romances are considered to be "quasi-historical adventures".
Sure! I probably forgot to mention them because they are so obvious - you often become blind to the things right before your eyes.

For me it is time to check out Vulpius, both TV and in the original, wonderful!
There is a Vulpius TV series? Is it on sale somewhere?

Really?
It is a personal favourite, even if, as you write, the more interesting parts don't happen in "real" Germany. It is curious because I generally don't like Moorcock's hackwork, and this book is one of the three exceptions (the other two are the first Corum trilogy and The Black Corridor, his experimental space horror). Can't comment on the German translation, but I liked the English version well enough.

Offline Settembrini

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Offline Dirk Remmecke

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Re: Picaresque adventures in the 17th and 18th century
« Antwort #8 am: 21. Juni 2013, 22:50:04 »
It is a personal favourite, even if, as you write, the more interesting parts don't happen in "real" Germany.

After six Runestaff novels (written by Moorcock in just twelwe days???) maybe the War Hound was just an overdose of Moorcock prose.
But I remember that I was not disappointed about the story moving from Germany to ... someplace else. I was disappointed because his Germany didn't feel like Germany at all. Not even clichéd, fake, Germany. It was a generic fantasyland, all the more disappointing as Moorcock's other worlds are far from generic. Granbretan is different from the Young Kingdoms from Corum's (nameless?) world.

This summer I will be able to shop at Forbidden Planet again. I'll look out for the War Hound this time. (That, and Jack Vance's Lyonesse omnibus, and the second Arabesk novel by Jon Courtenay Grimwood...)

Rinaldo Rinaldini

Arpad the Gypsy

I remember Arpad - but Rinaldo Rinaldini? Never heard of it...
"Aspects were best when they were just 'Cliches' in Risus."
TristamEvans

Offline Melan

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Re: Picaresque adventures in the 17th and 18th century
« Antwort #9 am: 22. Juni 2013, 00:09:05 »
Also, am I correct that Arpad the Gypsy was not broadcast in Hungary? WP implies as much.
I have not heard of it, it might have been shown before I was even born. A lot of German, French and Italian series were shown on TV in those years.

Offline Zornhau

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Re: Picaresque adventures in the 17th and 18th century
« Antwort #10 am: 22. Juni 2013, 01:04:06 »
Arpad, der Zigeuner - DANKE für diese Kindheitserinnerung!

Offline Settembrini

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Re: Picaresque adventures in the 17th and 18th century
« Antwort #11 am: 22. Juni 2013, 08:47:45 »
Also, am I correct that Arpad the Gypsy was not broadcast in Hungary? WP implies as much.
I have not heard of it, it might have been shown before I was even born. A lot of German, French and Italian series were shown on TV in those years.

It obviously plays in Hungary of the 18th century and was afaik a co-production filmed in Hungary.

Offline Melan

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Re: Picaresque adventures in the 17th and 18th century
« Antwort #12 am: 24. Juni 2013, 19:46:20 »
I got lucky and found a copy of the Rinaldo Rinaldini book - that is, an edition reworked and shortened for a juvenile audience. I don't know if it is the adaptation, but the pace is insane: plotlines resolve within a matter of pages, and Rinaldo flits from woman to woman while his band goes through members just as fast. It is clear Rinaldo and a few of his friends are player characters, because they escape extremely perilous situations, while the red shirts just get killed off in large numbers. It is surprisingly bloody for something rewritten for teens - when Rinaldo discovers a gang of aristocrats, he orders the ears of a French count cut off; and when he discovers members of his gang looting against his orders, the men are immediately executed by firing squad. A lot of times, we just hear how five or twelve members of the band were caught and imprisoned/set for execution, and Rinaldo doesn't give a damn, he carries on robbing.

Adventurers!

There is a very old English edition up on Google Books, but I haven't tried to read it yet to compare.

Offline Settembrini

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Re: Picaresque adventures in the 17th and 18th century
« Antwort #13 am: 28. Juni 2013, 20:03:15 »
First episode (25') recap:
- breakneck pace
- casual deaths
- 3 swooning ladies

Offline Settembrini

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Re: Picaresque adventures in the 17th and 18th century
« Antwort #14 am: 16. August 2013, 22:01:09 »
Watched more episodes:

- ladies galore, seduction and sex are tastefully indicated but ofc not displayed; while the HBO style was refreshing when I first encountered it in ROME, it bores me to death these days
- Dungeons
- Riddles
- Secret Societies
- Treason
- Hiding in barrells
- likable thieves and robbers
- No posing, but overacting

Great unspoilt fun, but the "everyone is a secret noble" angle I do not care for too much these much more class-conscious days. So some minus points to Vulpius for that. But then he needed to sell his wares...

What is most amazing that in its early days, German TV audiences could apparently cope with a BIG story arc. You basically need to watch every episode in order. That has become impossible in public TV here at some point.

ADD: The Croatian scenery standing in for Italy just as picaresque as the OP might be looking for. Some of the scenes in taverns look EXACTLY like a Tavern in Greyhawk or the early DSA:
http://www.wiki-aventurica.de/images/3/36/RB_MMSuZ1.jpg
« Letzte Änderung: 16. August 2013, 22:05:07 von Settembrini »